Original Interview by Emily Friedman for AWE 2020, Women’s History Month published on 9 March 2020
Women Making History 2020
To begin, could you provide us with a little background on yourself and your career? What does your job entail and what was you very first encounter with AR/VR?
I am CEO of Neon, an immersive health and wellbeing company; Visiting Professor In Immersive Futures with Ulster University in Northern Ireland and an Artist. These 3 roles are complimentary and work well together.
Neon has a clear vision to create software applications in virtual, augmented and mixed realities to give people choice. Our values are to develop products that meet consumers needs and are designed in response to and alongside this need. We believe successful technology teaches people skills they can use in real life and enables people to feel human. Technology is enabling consumers to choose how, when and where they use products and this is disrupting old modes of interaction and formats. Neon works alongside the world’s best designers and developers to bring virtual, augmented and mixed reality software applications to market from concept design, build, consumer testing, data gathering and launch. However Neon is not just defined by the products we make but rather by the customer benefits we provide and the lives we improve. Our successes are RETNE Online Platform Steam and Viveport 30k global downloads; Festivals & Arcades Nevada Film Festival VR Pavilion 2017; CtrlV VR Arcade Canada; Viral Arcade Canada; Award RTS Finalist Interactive Content 2017; Women In Tech Finalist 2018; Pitch At Palace Finalist 2018; Talking Sense shortlisted for Digital DNA 2020 awards.
My company was founded in December 2016 and is largely R&D although we have brought a couple of products to market, RETNE and BreatheVR. RETNE is available on Steam and Viveport and was my first experience in creating, producing and directing VR which we premiered at SxSW17.
BreatheVR is a VR app for Gear VR and Oculus Go that uses the breath and rewards the user visually to help them reach a relaxed state of deep breathing. The benefits of deep breathing and meditation have long been recognised to aid relaxation. Recent studies using virtual reality also evidence further benefits. BreatheVR combines the power of virtual reality and deep breathing to create a uniquely immersive experience for the user.
Our latest R&D project is Talking Sense which is an AR conversation training tool that using artificial intelligence technology to enable dynamic machine learning conversation processes with the aim of supporting parents to better understand the behaviour of their children with autism and better enable coping strategies and appropriate interventions. Our app demonstrates whether an interactive conversation with an AR character can help improve parents’ understanding of their child’s’ behaviour? What effect does it have on the parents capacity to understand and cope? Is this approach and platform more effective and impactful than traditional teaching methods? What are the emotional stress points in parental learning? By using dynamic machine learning processes with an integrated dialogue engine the parent can have a conversation in real time with the AR character. The parent will engage in a conversation with an AR character who is representing their child, to practice in real time real life challenging behaviour scenarios and strategies for supporting and understanding their child.
My first experience with VR was Bjork’s Vulnicura album in Reykjavik November 2016. I had been feeling unwell on that day but all that changed the minute I put on the headset and found myself dancing with Bjork. I returned to Belfast and by December 2016 had established my company.
What is it like as a woman working in AR/VR?
Thats tricky to answer. I am an Indian British European woman who grew up in India and England and have lived in Denmark, Holland, France and Belgium and have refused to be defined by any perceptions. Having said that I think there are broader institutional equity issues in the tech sector generally that intersect gender, race and age, but certainly not limited to these areas. These issues are then equally applicable to ARVR.
I think its interesting that the focus is always on how we can get young women into the tech industry, as if the problem is with young women themselves. To be honest many tech companies should be focusing on retaining the women that they already have in their workforce. The industry needs to recognise the role that their policies and culture play in causing inequality. By implementing more open recruitment strategies, with specific and measurable performance evaluation criteria and by having transparent procedures for pay, bonuses, promotions and project allocations, this will help to start to address some of these systemic barriers. The tech industry also needs more women in leadership positions. People get inspired to do something when they can see others like themselves doing it. When women see other women in these roles, they find it easier to imagine themselves in those roles. This is not rocket science and its like Marian Wright Edelman said “you can’t be what you can’t see.” We need to start thinking seriously about implementing quotas. Quotas are not an anathema to meritocracy, what they actually do is increase competence levels by displacing mediocre men. This finding is based on fascinating research in Sweden. Once again we need to change the narrative of focus and move the burden of the argument “from the under-representation of women to the unjustifiable over-representation of men”.
What challenges do you face that your male colleagues and peers don’t?
Again difficult to answer. It would interesting to pose the question “whats it like to be a man in ARVR?” How often is that question asked, I guess, almost never, and what does that tell us?
Have you ever felt judged or overlooked because of your gender?
Honestly I don’t know. There are some decisions where the outcome has confused me, but you never really know what the thinking process was behind reaching those decisions, do you? My approach is to take every experience as a learning opportunity.
What about the user experience for women; how do today’s XR devices fit and perform for women?
I have not had any challenges with XR devices to date. Any product design process has to be inclusive and test with widest range of needs. To be honest the business case for diversity and inclusion is overwhelming. We know that profit margins at the most diverse companies are 14% higher (source:McKinsey 2012). The relationship between diversity and inclusion and innovation is also fascinating where companies that have more diverse management teams have a 19% higher revenue due to increased innovation (source: Boston Consulting Group 2018 research based on 1700 companies across 8 countries). For me its very simple, diversity in thinking, experience and background are strategic competitive advantages to drive innovation and by getting this right tech companies will build the next generation of meaningful digital experiences, services and products. It also means that these tech companies are more likely to meet the needs of all of their customers, and to generate ideas and qualify concepts to fill the innovation growth pipeline more efficiently.
What is your advice to women who want to break into AR/VR?
If I was a women in the tech industry or ARVR looking for new employment opportunities I would do my due diligence. I would look at the company structure and pay close attention to the composition (gender, race, age and so on) of their board, executive and senior management teams. I would read Glassdoor reviews. I would read the company gender pay gap reports. I would read the company’s equality, diversity and inclusion policies and see what commitments are made on the company website and I would reach out to women currently working in the company to hear their first hand experiences. We are in a market of high demand for these skillsets and you have choice.
What would you like to say to men in the space? What should they be doing to help women in tech?
I have had so many kind and well experienced men and women mentor me along my career. We need to work together if we are ever going to achieve full equity.
What is the most critical issue for women in AR/VR in the next decade?
My concerns are largely to do with tech generally. We don’t know what we don’t know. With the current exploitation of data, facial recognition tech, machine learning and artificial intelligence, we should really be informing our young people and each other about the complexity and impact of these technologies. Society is being redesigned as we speak. We have not future proofed our tech, nor have we thought through the intended and unintended consequences of everything that is happening currently. We are powering a society that will benefit powerful corporations and I think we will be/are pawns in that. I want people to question what is happening and I try to do it in my own way through the talks that I give. I am not alone. We are part of a growing community that wants to change this narrative. We have to take responsibility for our own learning.
www.deepamannkler.com | www.discoverneon.com | @deepamann_kler
